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Issue 233 • Free Online Magazine

Issue 233 Featured

From Swimming Pool to New Listening Room: A Conversation with Norman Varney of AV RoomService

From Swimming Pool to New Listening Room: A Conversation with Norman Varney of AV RoomService

 

(Above: Gilles Laferrière and Norman Varney.)

 

Copper has an exchange program with selected magazines, where we share articles between publications. This one's from PMA Magazine: the Power of Music and Audio.

For an interview with Norman Varney of AV RoomService, and for background information leading up to this article, please click on the links here and here.

 

When I decided to transform a swimming pool area into a listening room, I knew I was stepping into something wholly unconventional. What I didn’t fully grasp at the time was just how demanding this project would become—technically, intellectually, and in terms of discipline.

In the first two articles of this series, I shared the origin of the project and my thought process that came with it. At that stage, many decisions were still conceptual. Today, things are more concrete. The margin for error is smaller, and the need for rigour is much greater.

That is precisely what led me back to Norman Varney of AV RoomService.



The Acoustician Returns

I first met Norman in May 2022 at the High-End show in Munich, where I had the opportunity to interview him for PMA Magazine. What struck me at the time was not only the depth of his knowledge, but the clarity of his thinking. His approach to acoustics was structured, methodical, and grounded in physics—not trends or subjective opinions.

 

Front view of Gilles’s previous listening room with the audio system in place

Facing the front of Gilles’ previous listening room.

 

Following that interview, I invited Norman to Montréal to help optimize my listening room. Norman was not involved in the room’s design or construction; his role came later, more than two years after my room had been completed. But his contribution was significant. Through measurements, analysis, and targeted adjustments, he helped me better understand what the room was doing—and what it wasn’t. That experience changed the way I approach acoustics.

When this new project began to take shape, it made sense to me to involve him from the outset, this time not as an external observer arriving after the fact, but as an acoustic consultant during the construction process.

 

Noise Control

One of the first things Norman emphasized during our discussion was something that may seem obvious yet is often overlooked or not taken seriously enough.

“Before we can talk about sound quality, we have to talk about noise control.”


Norman Varney performing acoustic transmission tests between two adjacent rooms at Owens Corning

Norman worked in acoustics at several companies, including at Owens Corning, pictured here, where he’s performing acoustic tests outside two rooms.

 

In a typical residential environment, background noise sits around 40 db. It feels quiet, but from an acoustic standpoint, it is not sufficiently low to reveal all the content of a recording, especially in the quieter passages and the smallest detail.

“You start hearing low-level detail, ambience, the space of the recording,” he explained about the advantage of less background noise. “Things that were always there, but masked.”

We're not talking about a subtle improvement. Lowering the noise floor changes bot the perceived resolution and the dynamic behavior of a system. It allows the music to project with greater presence, without needing to compensate by raising the volume.

Another key point that I hadn’t fully appreciated before working with Norman, is that noise doesn’t go in just one direction.

“Sound transmission is always a two-way street. If it can get out, it can get in.”

This has direct implications for the project. It isn’t only about isolating the room from the rest of the house, but about preventing external noise from entering the system.

HVAC systems, structural vibrations, environmental noise—all of these should, ideally, be considered, measured, and addressed. Even if you don’t hear them, they can affect the listening experience.

 

Design Process

From there, the discussion moved organically toward the design process itself.

“What are your goals?” Norman asked me.

This question is more important than it might seem. The answer to it will decide everything that follows. Without a clear target—whether in terms of noise criteria, frequency response, or how often we listen—decisions become arbitrary.

Once the goals are established, the process becomes structured.

“We’re dealing with room modes,” he explained. “They’re tied directly to the dimensions of the space.”

Room dimensions can’t be overlooked. They determine how low frequencies behave, where resonances occur, and how energy is distributed.

“Once we know the dimensions, we know where the speakers go. We know where the listener goes,” said Norman. “It’s all geometry.”

It’s the difference between intuition and predictability.

One topic that often generates debate is the use of non-parallel walls. The idea is widely accepted in some circles: by introducing angles, reflections are reduced, and standing waves are minimized. Norman takes a different position:

“For a critical listening room, I want symmetry. I want predictability.”

In his view, non-parallel surfaces introduce unnecessary complexity.

“With a rectangular room, I know exactly what’s happening,” he said. “If you start angling walls, everything becomes unpredictable.”

In the context of a project where performance is the priority, predictability is essential, especially as the project progresses from design to construction and the level of precision required increases significantly.

“The system is only as good as its weakest link,” Norman reminded me.

This applies to every element of the room: walls, ceiling, floor, doors, openings for HVAC and electrical systems.

“Even a one percent gap can dramatically reduce performance.”

This is not theoretical. It has direct consequences on the effectiveness of the entire structure.

For that reason, coordination between the various contractors and technicians becomes critical. Each participant must understand that they are contributing to a system, not just completing an isolated task.

“It’s a team effort,” Norman said. “If one person doesn’t do their job properly, it can negate everything else.”

One of the more counterintuitive aspects of Norman’s approach concerns low-frequency behaviour.

“We actually want the structure to move,” he said.

In many discussions about audio, rigidity is associated with better performance. However, at low frequencies, the situation is different.

“Bass energy is significant. Small treatments are not sufficient.”

 

The indoor swimming pool that will be converted into the new listening room, still filled with water

The pool before being emptied of water and prepared to be filled with gravel.

 

Instead, the structure itself—walls, ceiling, and floor—can be treated to act as a large-scale absorber to control low-frequencies. “If everything is rigid, the bass has nowhere to go. It remains in the room.”

This perspective has direct implications for construction methods and material choices. Once structural considerations have been addressed, attention can shift to the room’s interior acoustic response, where the objective is not simply to reduce reflections, but to achieve a balanced decay across the full frequency range.

“For critical listening, we’re typically aiming for a reverberation time between about 0.25 and 0.4 seconds above 125 Hz,” explained Norman.

Below that, a slightly longer decay is acceptable and can even contribute to a more natural presentation.

“There’s a psychoacoustic aspect,” Norman added, highlighting the interaction between measurable parameters and human perception. “If the room is too dead, it becomes uncomfortable.”

Electrical design is also part of the acoustic equation, where circuits, isolation transformers, and proper grounding are used to minimize interference and ensure stable operation.

“It’s about performance, but also reliability,” said Norman.

 

Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT)

At this stage of the project, another element was part of the discussion: the involvement of Sweden-based acoustic consulting firm Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT).

Their approach is different from more traditional acoustic methods, and their work is based on proprietary ideas that aren’t always described using standard measurements.

I asked Norman how he viewed their approach.

“When we’re talking about acoustics, we’re talking about physics. So we should all be speaking the same language.”

For Norman, there needs to be verifiable data.

“Absorption coefficients, diffusion characteristics—measurable performance. That’s what allows me to evaluate and determine a solution.”

Without that data, it becomes more difficult to properly assess a situation.

 

Norman Varney using a laser pointer to align a loudspeaker in a listening room at Owens Corning

Norman laser-aiming a speaker in one of the rooms at Owens Corning.

 

“That doesn’t mean it won’t work,” he said. “But without data, I can’t confidently apply it.”

Still, he remains open-minded: “If something can be demonstrated and supported by measurable results, I’ll consider it.”

He noted, however, that certain aspects of SMT’s approach raise questions.

“There are some red flags,” he said. “I’m not drawing conclusions, but I do have questions.”

In a project of this scale, the details matter. Modern tools, including the type of computer modeling used by SMT, play an important role throughout the process. But modeling is not a substitute for verification.

“It’s still just modeling. Once the room is built, you have to measure it,” he said.

Final assessment involves both objective measurements and listening tests to ensure the two work in tandem.

 

Food for Thought

Despite the importance of room acoustics in sound quality, they’re often overlooked and under-appreciated by audiophiles.

“People will spend thousands on cables, but they hesitate to invest in acoustics.” Part of the reason stems from the complexity of the subject and the amount of conflicting information available.

“There’s so much bad information out there. People don’t know who to trust,” said Norman.

The decisions being made now will define the performance of the room for years to come. But in the end, “The room has the final say,” Norman reminded me.

Based on my experience with my previous listening space—and now with this project—that statement is not theoretical.

It is a constraint.

And ultimately, it is what makes this project both challenging and, if things go according to plan, worthwhile.

******

Afterword: The Final Say

Two acoustic philosophies now sit on the workbench: SMT’s proprietary modeling and Norman’s measurable, verifiable physics. The pool will be drained, the structure framed, and somewhere along the way these voices will have to converge. The room, as Norman reminded me, will let me know how it went.

To be continued...


All images courtesy of PMA Magazine.

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#233 Corey Glover and One Tribe Nation: A Variegated Musical Collective by Ray Chelstowski Aug 03, 2026 #233 Excursions with Clive: The Late Clive Davis, A Personal History by Wayne Robins Aug 03, 2026 #233 AI, Art, and Music: A Conversation With Synthography Art by Joe Caplan Aug 03, 2026 #233 New American Symphonies: A Rediscovered Gem and a Vital Contemporary Work by Frank Doris Aug 03, 2026 #233 The Vinyl Beat: Genesis, the Dave Clark Five, Antonio Carlos Jobim and More by Rudy Radelic Aug 03, 2026 #233 How to Play in a Rock Band, 26: When It's Time to Record Your Music by Frank Doris Aug 03, 2026 #233 More From T.H.E. Show 2026, and the People Who Made it Happen by Harris Fogel Aug 03, 2026 #233 Underappreciated Artists, Part Three: Icehouse by Rich Isaacs Aug 03, 2026 #233 The Surprisingly Rich and Varied Music of Somalia by Steve Kindig Aug 03, 2026 #233 A Remarkable Discographic Legacy: The LP Recordings of the Basel Symphony Orchestra by Stephan Haberthür Aug 03, 2026 #233 From The Audiophile’s Guide: The Importance of Loudspeakers by Paul McGowan Aug 03, 2026 #233 From Swimming Pool to New Listening Room: A Conversation with Norman Varney of AV RoomService by Gilles Laferrière Aug 03, 2026 #233 PS Audio in the News by PS Audio Staff Aug 03, 2026 #233 Audio Jewelry by Peter Xeni Aug 03, 2026 #233 Enrich Your Life by Frank Doris Aug 03, 2026 #233 The Searcher by James Schrimpf Aug 03, 2026 #232 What came first: Art or Music? A Conversation With Artist Jose Acosta by Joe Caplan Jul 06, 2026 #232 Blow By Blow: The Jeff Beck Story: An Insightful Book About a Guitar Icon by Ray Chelstowski Jul 06, 2026 #232 Creed Over Camaraderie? by B. Jan Montana Jul 06, 2026 #232 Chronicles of a Sound Pilgrim at the 2026 Montreal Audiofest by Hugues Morin Jul 06, 2026 #232 The Vinyl Beat: Summer Grooves by Rudy Radelic Jul 06, 2026 #232 Hibbing Hillbilly Dylan's Acoustic Rock by Wayne Robins Jul 06, 2026 #232 Quad Quads and Plasmatronics Tweeters: An Extraordinary System Comes to Life by Frank Doris Jul 06, 2026 #232 In Praise of Live Music, Once Again by Ted Shafran Jul 06, 2026 #232 Allnic Audio’s L-9000 Preamplifier: Design and Engineering Innovation by Howard Kneller Jul 06, 2026 #232 “Best Of” Lists and Rage Bait: Enough Already by Frank Doris Jul 06, 2026 #232 Quick Takes: Bud Shank, Paulo Almeida, Jakob Dreyer, Tim Eriksen and Peter Irvine by Frank Doris Jul 06, 2026 #232 My Impressions of AXPONA 2026, Part 2 by Frank Doris Jul 06, 2026 #232 How to Play in a Rock Band, 25: Encounters With Famous Musicians, Part Three by Frank Doris Jul 06, 2026 #232 Budgets, and Systems From Small to Outrageous by Paul McGowan Jul 06, 2026 #232 PS Audio in the News by PS Audio Staff Jul 06, 2026 #232 Hand It Over by Frank Doris Jul 06, 2026 #232 Difference of Opinion by Peter Xeni Jul 06, 2026 #232 Wabi-sabi Tree by James Schrimpf Jul 06, 2026 #231 Piano Prodigy Jude Kofie Releases His Debut Album On Octave Records by Frank Doris Jun 01, 2026 #231 Underappreciated Artists, Part Two: City Boy by Rich Isaacs Jun 01, 2026 #231 Music and the Art of Creation: Talking With Saxophonist Rob Scheps by Joe Caplan Jun 01, 2026 #231 How to Play in a Rock Band, 24: Further Adventures at the 2026 Montauk Music Festival by Frank Doris Jun 01, 2026 #231 Courtney Barnett: Creature of Habit by Wayne Robins Jun 01, 2026 #231 Angine de Poitrine: Interstellar Guitar Rock Saviors Headed for Late-Night TV Pop Stardom? by Mark Lepage Jun 01, 2026 #231 My Impressions of AXPONA 2026, Part One by Frank Doris Jun 01, 2026 #231 2026 La Jolla Concours d'Elegance: Another Aesthetic Feast by B. Jan Montana Jun 01, 2026 #231 Country Music Icon Jo Dee Messina’s Bridges: A New Beginning by Ray Chelstowski Jun 01, 2026 #231 The Luxury Dispatch Hosts a Video Podcast With Ken Kessler by Ken Kessler Jun 01, 2026 #231 The Vinyl Beat: Tracking in the Motor City by Rudy Radelic Jun 01, 2026 #231 Lots of Fun With DSP: The Ferrum Audio WANDLA DAC and Its Tube Mode by Frank Doris Jun 01, 2026 #231 From The Audiophile's Guide: Digital Source Components and Streaming Audio by Paul McGowan Jun 01, 2026 #231 Onkyo’s Monster M-510 power amplifier by The Staff at Just Audio Jun 01, 2026

From Swimming Pool to New Listening Room: A Conversation with Norman Varney of AV RoomService

From Swimming Pool to New Listening Room: A Conversation with Norman Varney of AV RoomService

 

(Above: Gilles Laferrière and Norman Varney.)

 

Copper has an exchange program with selected magazines, where we share articles between publications. This one's from PMA Magazine: the Power of Music and Audio.

For an interview with Norman Varney of AV RoomService, and for background information leading up to this article, please click on the links here and here.

 

When I decided to transform a swimming pool area into a listening room, I knew I was stepping into something wholly unconventional. What I didn’t fully grasp at the time was just how demanding this project would become—technically, intellectually, and in terms of discipline.

In the first two articles of this series, I shared the origin of the project and my thought process that came with it. At that stage, many decisions were still conceptual. Today, things are more concrete. The margin for error is smaller, and the need for rigour is much greater.

That is precisely what led me back to Norman Varney of AV RoomService.



The Acoustician Returns

I first met Norman in May 2022 at the High-End show in Munich, where I had the opportunity to interview him for PMA Magazine. What struck me at the time was not only the depth of his knowledge, but the clarity of his thinking. His approach to acoustics was structured, methodical, and grounded in physics—not trends or subjective opinions.

 

Front view of Gilles’s previous listening room with the audio system in place

Facing the front of Gilles’ previous listening room.

 

Following that interview, I invited Norman to Montréal to help optimize my listening room. Norman was not involved in the room’s design or construction; his role came later, more than two years after my room had been completed. But his contribution was significant. Through measurements, analysis, and targeted adjustments, he helped me better understand what the room was doing—and what it wasn’t. That experience changed the way I approach acoustics.

When this new project began to take shape, it made sense to me to involve him from the outset, this time not as an external observer arriving after the fact, but as an acoustic consultant during the construction process.

 

Noise Control

One of the first things Norman emphasized during our discussion was something that may seem obvious yet is often overlooked or not taken seriously enough.

“Before we can talk about sound quality, we have to talk about noise control.”


Norman Varney performing acoustic transmission tests between two adjacent rooms at Owens Corning

Norman worked in acoustics at several companies, including at Owens Corning, pictured here, where he’s performing acoustic tests outside two rooms.

 

In a typical residential environment, background noise sits around 40 db. It feels quiet, but from an acoustic standpoint, it is not sufficiently low to reveal all the content of a recording, especially in the quieter passages and the smallest detail.

“You start hearing low-level detail, ambience, the space of the recording,” he explained about the advantage of less background noise. “Things that were always there, but masked.”

We're not talking about a subtle improvement. Lowering the noise floor changes bot the perceived resolution and the dynamic behavior of a system. It allows the music to project with greater presence, without needing to compensate by raising the volume.

Another key point that I hadn’t fully appreciated before working with Norman, is that noise doesn’t go in just one direction.

“Sound transmission is always a two-way street. If it can get out, it can get in.”

This has direct implications for the project. It isn’t only about isolating the room from the rest of the house, but about preventing external noise from entering the system.

HVAC systems, structural vibrations, environmental noise—all of these should, ideally, be considered, measured, and addressed. Even if you don’t hear them, they can affect the listening experience.

 

Design Process

From there, the discussion moved organically toward the design process itself.

“What are your goals?” Norman asked me.

This question is more important than it might seem. The answer to it will decide everything that follows. Without a clear target—whether in terms of noise criteria, frequency response, or how often we listen—decisions become arbitrary.

Once the goals are established, the process becomes structured.

“We’re dealing with room modes,” he explained. “They’re tied directly to the dimensions of the space.”

Room dimensions can’t be overlooked. They determine how low frequencies behave, where resonances occur, and how energy is distributed.

“Once we know the dimensions, we know where the speakers go. We know where the listener goes,” said Norman. “It’s all geometry.”

It’s the difference between intuition and predictability.

One topic that often generates debate is the use of non-parallel walls. The idea is widely accepted in some circles: by introducing angles, reflections are reduced, and standing waves are minimized. Norman takes a different position:

“For a critical listening room, I want symmetry. I want predictability.”

In his view, non-parallel surfaces introduce unnecessary complexity.

“With a rectangular room, I know exactly what’s happening,” he said. “If you start angling walls, everything becomes unpredictable.”

In the context of a project where performance is the priority, predictability is essential, especially as the project progresses from design to construction and the level of precision required increases significantly.

“The system is only as good as its weakest link,” Norman reminded me.

This applies to every element of the room: walls, ceiling, floor, doors, openings for HVAC and electrical systems.

“Even a one percent gap can dramatically reduce performance.”

This is not theoretical. It has direct consequences on the effectiveness of the entire structure.

For that reason, coordination between the various contractors and technicians becomes critical. Each participant must understand that they are contributing to a system, not just completing an isolated task.

“It’s a team effort,” Norman said. “If one person doesn’t do their job properly, it can negate everything else.”

One of the more counterintuitive aspects of Norman’s approach concerns low-frequency behaviour.

“We actually want the structure to move,” he said.

In many discussions about audio, rigidity is associated with better performance. However, at low frequencies, the situation is different.

“Bass energy is significant. Small treatments are not sufficient.”

 

The indoor swimming pool that will be converted into the new listening room, still filled with water

The pool before being emptied of water and prepared to be filled with gravel.

 

Instead, the structure itself—walls, ceiling, and floor—can be treated to act as a large-scale absorber to control low-frequencies. “If everything is rigid, the bass has nowhere to go. It remains in the room.”

This perspective has direct implications for construction methods and material choices. Once structural considerations have been addressed, attention can shift to the room’s interior acoustic response, where the objective is not simply to reduce reflections, but to achieve a balanced decay across the full frequency range.

“For critical listening, we’re typically aiming for a reverberation time between about 0.25 and 0.4 seconds above 125 Hz,” explained Norman.

Below that, a slightly longer decay is acceptable and can even contribute to a more natural presentation.

“There’s a psychoacoustic aspect,” Norman added, highlighting the interaction between measurable parameters and human perception. “If the room is too dead, it becomes uncomfortable.”

Electrical design is also part of the acoustic equation, where circuits, isolation transformers, and proper grounding are used to minimize interference and ensure stable operation.

“It’s about performance, but also reliability,” said Norman.

 

Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT)

At this stage of the project, another element was part of the discussion: the involvement of Sweden-based acoustic consulting firm Svanå Miljöteknik AB (SMT).

Their approach is different from more traditional acoustic methods, and their work is based on proprietary ideas that aren’t always described using standard measurements.

I asked Norman how he viewed their approach.

“When we’re talking about acoustics, we’re talking about physics. So we should all be speaking the same language.”

For Norman, there needs to be verifiable data.

“Absorption coefficients, diffusion characteristics—measurable performance. That’s what allows me to evaluate and determine a solution.”

Without that data, it becomes more difficult to properly assess a situation.

 

Norman Varney using a laser pointer to align a loudspeaker in a listening room at Owens Corning

Norman laser-aiming a speaker in one of the rooms at Owens Corning.

 

“That doesn’t mean it won’t work,” he said. “But without data, I can’t confidently apply it.”

Still, he remains open-minded: “If something can be demonstrated and supported by measurable results, I’ll consider it.”

He noted, however, that certain aspects of SMT’s approach raise questions.

“There are some red flags,” he said. “I’m not drawing conclusions, but I do have questions.”

In a project of this scale, the details matter. Modern tools, including the type of computer modeling used by SMT, play an important role throughout the process. But modeling is not a substitute for verification.

“It’s still just modeling. Once the room is built, you have to measure it,” he said.

Final assessment involves both objective measurements and listening tests to ensure the two work in tandem.

 

Food for Thought

Despite the importance of room acoustics in sound quality, they’re often overlooked and under-appreciated by audiophiles.

“People will spend thousands on cables, but they hesitate to invest in acoustics.” Part of the reason stems from the complexity of the subject and the amount of conflicting information available.

“There’s so much bad information out there. People don’t know who to trust,” said Norman.

The decisions being made now will define the performance of the room for years to come. But in the end, “The room has the final say,” Norman reminded me.

Based on my experience with my previous listening space—and now with this project—that statement is not theoretical.

It is a constraint.

And ultimately, it is what makes this project both challenging and, if things go according to plan, worthwhile.

******

Afterword: The Final Say

Two acoustic philosophies now sit on the workbench: SMT’s proprietary modeling and Norman’s measurable, verifiable physics. The pool will be drained, the structure framed, and somewhere along the way these voices will have to converge. The room, as Norman reminded me, will let me know how it went.

To be continued...


All images courtesy of PMA Magazine.

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