Why Paul doesn’t like B and W tweeters
Subscribe to Ask Paul Ask a QuestionPaul has long suggested he's no a big fan of B and W's tweeters. Find out if that's the truth.
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Paul has long suggested he's no a big fan of B and W's tweeters. Find out if that's the truth.
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Hey Paul, fix your collar.
Hey Paul how do you feel about Bowers and Wilkins stablemate Rotel?
Paul… I wonder if you’ve heard the newest B&Ws, say the 802Ds?
I’m a Wilson guy having switched over from B&W 800Ns years ago. Never could get them to image well in my room. They were probably too large. To the point, my local dealer, who’s lines include Magico and MBL recently had some new B&W 802Ds just in. They were okay, not great. I could hear the individual drivers playing. I came back a couple of weeks later and, after a couple of hundred hours of break in and Wow, did they sound terrific. At less than half the price of his big lines. Their tweeters seemed to have calmed down nicely over time and the sound was nicely integrated.
Looking forward to hearing the PS Audio speakers. Seems some of the worlds best transducers are from the Mountain West.
Best,
Bob Coppersmith
B&W speakers are not imaging champions but their musical sound massages the soul and they reveal the soul of the music.
I have the B&W DM302 and the LM1 with the magnesium cabinets. I also have the P7 headphones. B&W has a sound all of their own. Very very transparent detailed and musical and somehow they incorporated that unique sound into their headphones so yes they do know the sound they are after. Their speaker’s analyse a recording and are as ruthlessly revealing as any speaker system out there regardless of price. Sometimes when the associated equipment isn’t up to par the blame goes onto the speaker that reveals that. Don’t skimp on wires because with B&W speaker’s you can easily hear the wire used in the system. Make sure your cartridge on your turntable is perfectly aligned or you will hear that too.
I agree completely. B&Ws really reveal the properties of the surrounding equipment. I’m driving 800 D3 speakers with Accuphase amplification and audio quest cabling. With both, amplification and cabling I have moved on to better and better products step by step over time. The B&Ws clearly reproduced the changes made each time, revealing more and more of their potential. Also to my ears imaging and reproduction of the soundstage are great. That is of course, if there is spatial information on the recording, not simple pan potting and addition of reverb. You will hear a great sonic stage on an accordingly recorded acoustic recording (e.g. most recently on the direct to disc recordings of the Berlin Philharmonic). However on a pop-production where the sound was created nearly exclusively “in the mix” and many instruments were fed into the console electronically you may hear no soundstage at all and instruments or vocals may nearly “jump” at you. But that is due to the recordings, not the B&Ws. They just happen to show very clearly what’s on the recording (and I assume to professional ears equally clearly what was done during the mix). When it comes to timbre I personally do not hear any particular brightness in the sound. I would also like to emphasize that listening room acoustics are essential as well. Having my listening room professionally treated was just about the biggest step forward in sound reproduction. My above assessments were made on that basis. Further I wonder whether the sonic footprint of speakers developed with the help of listening sessions depends also on the characteristics of the equipment used for listening during tests. I listen with Accuphase. To my knowledge B&W doesn’t (?) but Accuphase on the other hand listens to their products over B&Ws as far as I know.
@Paul: Does your personal assessment of B&W Tweeters refer to the aluminum or the diamond tweeters or to their tweeters in general?
Some people are so conditioned to laid back tweeters that even flat or neutral highs sound emphasized or forward to them.
I’ve heard BMW speakers countless of times.
Every time I heard them, my mind, always comes to this question.
“Where is the bass?”
Even with the best audio electronics, some full of tubes, most others not, I never could get enough bass out of them.
The midrange and the highs are ok, but they just lack bass.
Paul, if you’re reading this, I agree with you on the thin sound of BMW’s speakers.
I have never had a problem with their bass. Some say they emphasis the upper bass in some of their speaker’s. The higher end speaker’s are flatter. Could be the room positioning of the speaker’s which can have a huge effect on bass response.
I’ve owned B&Ws in my various systems for over 20 years. I’ve had DM302s, DM601S2s, subs, and I have a pair of 804S with the “nautilus” (non-diamond) tweeter in my current system. The older I’ve gotten the brighter these tweeters have seem to have gotten. To be fair, they were always bright, especially with most of the solid-state electronics I’ve had — with one exception: A Harman-Kardon Citation amp. The only time they were “tamed” and my system sounded glorious all around was when I had the McIntosh MC30s in my system. Wow. Alas, they were loaners. My PrimaLuna integrated is an excellent amp but it is more analytical (truthful?) in its presentation. Not as bright as solid-state amps, though.
I’m waiting with bated breath to listen to the PS Audio loudspeakers so I can retire these after almost 13 years of service. Although, truth be told, a Quad system has always been my dream…
I will avoid listening to all B&W products at all costs. Why? I am very offput by the appearance. They look more
like a 30’s deco style car than what I need my speakers to look like. Sad but true. TUTO. (Too ugly to own)
If I heard them and liked them it could put me in a very bad place. Narrow minded yes but I as Eastwood
said “A man’s gotta know his limitations”.
How is it possible to judge a speaker correctly without knowing the amp (and the room) which was used for the final voicing process? Maybe the designer at B&W had the perfect matching amps? Who knows?
You can’t really, can you. But it is, nonetheless, interesting to hear others relate ‘living with B&W speakers’ experiences to us. 🙂
I’ll declare up front that I’m a long-time B&W fan but that’s based on no more than the fact that many years ago I had a once-in-a-lifetime splurge on a high-end set up. This was about 20 years ago and I started out with the then Nautilus 801s. I realize that there is still much I don’t know but when I bought these I knew even less and relied heavily on many discussions with the guys at my local Hi Fi store, Tivoli Hi Fi, which, I’m happy to say, is still in business. The other thing that swayed me were images of 5 801s spread out in front of a mixing console at Abbey Road studios at about that time. 😛
I realize now that there may have been some expectation bias in my selection but what I can say is that, 20 years on, I still enjoy the ‘B&W sound’ (whatever that is 🙂 ), notwithstanding the changes to source devices and cables over the years. I’ll have to confess that I did make a major change to the speaker set up about 10 years ago when I traded in the 801s for a pair of 800 Diamonds, augmented with a pair of B&W DB1 active subbies. At the time I, too, felt that I was missing out on a decent bottom end to my musical experience. (I’ll blame P McGowan for that upgrade. 😛 ) I also appreciate the so-called ‘brightness’ of B&W’s tweeters but, from what I’ve learnt over the years, that can be ‘sweetened’ by concentrating on adjusting the room’s properties. I’ve had a few house moves over the years so have been able to experience hearing them in a number of different settings.
Despite a few bumps in the listening experience over the years I’m still discovering overall improvements in the way these speakers ‘sound’. Of course that may just be due to fact that I’ve grown used to their sound. However, I’m optimistic that my next move into a house of my design will reveal some more diamonds (excuse the pun) in my listening experience.
MikeK. You really really need to join a hundred consenting Musico- Audio-Philes in the MelbourneAudioClub, world’s best.
I guess it takes an American to be confused about geography;-)
I never owned a pare of BMW speakers, but I have heard them in show rooms at many hifi shops that I’ve walked in to.
I’ve heard them on Carry Audio and Mcintosh tube systems.
I’ve also heard them on Sonic Front Tear and other systems.
I went from my home state which is Florida in to other cities and states.
No matter what kind of equipment I happened to be checking out, they all had one thing in common.
Most of the shops I went in to, showed off their stereo equipment with BMW speakers.
However, the Mcintosh system that I checked out, was comprized of a pare of MC-275 tube stereo amps that were bridged, and a C-22 preamp.
The man used a Mcintosh CD transport and a Mcintosh DAC pluss a SONY music server as audio sorses.
I didn’t bother to really check out the server because it wasn’t blind user friendly.
But I did play with the bass and treble knobs on the preamp.
If i turned the bass up a little too high, the sound would fall apart on the BMW speakers.
A really pare of good speakers can handle the bass hyt.
To my ears, that’s where Klipch floor standing speakers really shine.
Older recordings, oh ya!
BMW speakers, to me, they don’t make the cut.
The BMW speakers makes jazz music sounds kind of pore.
Interesting subject; indeed! The B & W loudspeakers of today are certainly not the designs of the early days, say circa 1974 or 75.
At the time, their use of the now “ legendary” Celestion HF 1300 (e.g. DM3 or DM4 … but brought to ‘ outstanding’ heights in the still remarkable Spendor BC1) was the tweeter that actually brought and developed their company and future designs to their current status in the high end market.
Unfortunately, for me personally, the (current) line of speakers, particularly with regard to the upper-mid/ high frequency response, have left me a bit colder as compared to other high definition loudspeaker designs currently in vogue by the audio enthusiasts.