Just enough to be dangerous
Join Our Community Subscribe to Paul's PostsThey say a little knowledge goes a long way. They also say having just enough knowledge to get things misunderstood is a danger.
Ours is a complicated endeavor. We interact with complex devices that most of us don’t understand. Yet, we’re encouraged to learn all we can to make informed decisions on what to buy, how to improve, how to wring the most out of the music.
I have spent much of my life trying my best to educate people. For the past 8 years, I have written one of these daily posts. On my YouTube channel, I have posted in excess of 1,000 videos answering people’s questions. Our speaker genius, Chris Brunhaver is engaging with people on how speakers work. And over time, we will be ramping up our efforts to educate, inform, and bring a much needed light to those that find themselves in a bit of darkness.
I know it’s cliche to use the term just enough to be dangerous as I did in the post title. But, it’s not something I believe in. To me, even a little bit of knowledge is a step in the right direction. We as a community need to generously reach out a helping knowledgeable hand to those around us that desire to learn.
It is my belief that helping others learn by sharing our years of knowledge is not only the right thing to do, but it’s a critical component in an otherwise confusing world.
Ignorance on any level is not something beneficial to anyone.
I hope you reach out today and shine a little light for someone.
Mankind has accumulated a giant knowledge base. However mankind and his farm animal are responsible for the giant worldwide pollution contaminating the world with most toxic substances. And even audio designers contaminate the pure recorded music signal with all kind of distortions and then they are fighting to minimize these distortions. Wouldn’t it be nice if people would minimize pollution with the same degree of engagement as audio designers fight distortions and RFI? 🙂
I just shortly thought about my most important experience to share for today in order to have a satisfying audio experience. It probably is the following:
First chose a speaker that fits to your room, that is loud enough in bass clearly above your main room resonance and in lower mids, so that you have always a rich enough sound. It should be gentle enough or adjustable below that range so that you never get in trouble with the room resonances. If you don’t have an adjustable main speaker in the sub area or can’t implement extensive room treatment, use a separate equalizable sub instead for the lowest octaves, no main speaker going down loudly that low.
This will keep you from high end’s biggest basic troubles.
Not rarely, especially in case someone didn’t want to use a sub and wanted to have a good solution in other sound aspects, too, which I didn’t mention yet, the first satisfying search ended with a Maggie (in case proper room placement could be realized)
I’ve heard that Maggies are good at not booming up da room.
Yeah, not potent in low bass = good in not booming in this case. Rich in the midrange and gentle in presence = non fatiguing. They have other disadvantages, but still are best buys.
“Anything worthwhile in life requires effort”; this is a basic premise by which I live.
If someone cares enough about something they will make the effort to educate themselves on that subject; there’s a certain ‘rightness’ to that…in my not always so humble opinion.
After 22 years in audio retail, trying my best to treat customers with respect & educate them, even just a bit, to allow them to make an informed decision about their purchase choices & to be told by 90% that, ‘I’m the expert & that I should make the choice of what they should purchase’, gets not only very tiring but also quite disheartening.
“You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it think”…well I was close.
I’d love to live in a world where more people actually gave a sh!t; like REALLY gave a sh!t.
By making a REAL effort instead of just talk, talk, talking about it.
It reminds me of Monty Python’s ‘Life of Brian’ when The People’s Front of Judea or The Judean People’s Front or The Popular Front…”No he’s over there” (whichever one it is) have their meetings & just talk sh!t but never actually take any positive action…but, again…as I often do; I digress.
We make do with the world & the people that we are presented with.
You can’t beat knowledge into those that are not willing to learn, because there are laws that prevent physical violence…even if it is for the good of all & this makes me sad 🙁
Fat Rat,
Having had your posts bring some well needed humor and irony to my mornings, I have proof that there are at least a few intelligent and well intentioned humans on this rocky ball of dirt.
Besides, how can anyone who appreciates the intelligence and irony on Monty Python be a lost cause?
Well thank very much Aeroaudio.
I aim to laugh as much as I can & hopefully drag others, kicking & screaming, along with me.
Also thank you for considering me for “a lost cause” & then so gracefully pulling out of that hole.
You’re scholar & a gentleman sir.
“I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called Bigus Dikus”
“He has a wife you know…..do you what she’s called?”
Incontinentia Buttocks….;-)
🙂
I agree entirely with jazznut on this. Get a pair of speakers that are suited to your room and add a subwoofer if necessary. That and budget will determine pretty much everything else that follows.
I disagree with Paul based on what I hear from the retail dealers I’ve used in the last 10 years or so, which is that the vast majority of their customers come along and listen to demonstration equipment and make a decision based on what they hear and what they can afford or want to spend, besides of course what their sources are and aesthetic issues. The vast majority do not participate in forums or any online discussion and most are completely ignorant of the technical details of the equipment they are listening to and ultimately buy.
I can’t say I watch Paul’s videos, but I just looked at one. https://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/how-to-find-a-high-current-amplifier/
The correspondent wanted advice on a suitable amplifier to drive Mangepan speakers. It is my fault as I do not have the patience to watch the whole video, but I did watch some of a video someone posted up yesterday by a USA dealer comparing a low-power Hegel and high-power PS Audio driving a Mangepan speaker. Based on specifications, they expected the Hegel to be a complete fail, but it turned out to be fine. The reason why people go to dealers, and trust them, is because they know from experience what equipment works with the speakers they sell. In the aforementioned case they did not know only because they had sold out of the higher power Hegel amplifiers they wanted to use.
I do not think there is any obligation on a customer to know anything about how a product works other than to be able to operate it safely. That is true of, for example, the vast majority of owners of motor vehicles, vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, etc.
Arguably, I am in agreement with Paul in that I advocate trusting dealers and now in the USA at least Paul is the sole dealership. However, no amount of watching videos, reading magazines or online reviews will substitute sitting down in front of a pair of speakers with your ears open which, as jazznut explains, is where it starts. If the sound is tinny or the bass flabbly, it is easier to sort it out at the dealer rather than having to rely on google.
Maybe the problem is that the USA is took big. Maybe it should be smaller. Perhaps huddle together a bit more and sell the surplus to Denmark.
…or Greenland.
Well put Steven.
I moved to a smaller listening room & got smaller loudspeakers & the ‘fit’ is so perfect that I don’t require any sub’s…plenty of tight, ‘no boom’ bass as is.
Dealers are people, some are honest & helpful; some not so much.
So first you have to find a ‘good’ dealer before you can find the ‘right’ set-up.
No wonder some people just can’t be asked.
As of “4:24” I’ve received one idea concerning audio equipment selection.
One post on farming pollution, lots of opinion on how a dealer is required and a couple jabs at the US
Apparently so far this is the audio wisdom that needs to be passed on.
FR’s comment on self education is well put.
I’ll have to look elsewhere for mentors and education at this point.
No!
Don’t pass it on…I though that you were reading this on the toilet.
If you have lunch in Basel, you can easily get to The Hague for dinner and touch foot in 6 countries on the way, 4 of which have an excellent reputation for audio rivalling the best of the USA (Germany, France, Switzerland and The Netherlands), and you could also get to the UK before bedtime.
In Europe it really is easy to get to hear hifi, so there is no need to purchase based on knowledge and research. It seems that the internet has screwed up the traditional business model in the USA. Irrespective, I don’t see why any amount of knowledge should be a precursor for buying a consumer product. It should be possible to sell an audio system without the customer knowing what a DAC is. It is the complexity that I believe makes it unattractive to normal people and why so many flagging component businesses seem to be reviving themselves with more compact, idiot-proof systems.
As for Greenland, I sincerely hope it remains Danish so I don’t have to get a USA visa next time I visit.
P.s. if I went to an auto dealer and they started talking to me about carburettors and fuel injection systems, I’d find myself another auto dealer.
2 ways to look at the issue.
Apparently the need for knowledge or research shouldn’t be important. Just take the word of some dealers and marketers as long as it fits the individuals perception. Then parrot those ideals….
The other way is to be informed and inquisitive. That way when someone spots off at the mouth you’ll have a little clue as how much is self serving and grandstanding.
It may be that you are one of the inquisitive and informed, but dealers tell me that most customers are not. Obviously our experiences of dealers are very different. Mine are almost universally positiuve and I’ve never been given a hard sell or peddled technical mumbo-jumbo. I met a guy last week at a dealer where he’d recently bought a very expensive system and clearly did not even know the brands he’d been sold, but loved it to bits.
In the end it’s up to the individual as to how they purchase. It doesn’t matter what the product is.
I’ve dealt with good dealers and the bad.
When it comes to audio I like to know what I’m dealing with and have as many options to change or
Build upon things as possible, if and when the mood strikes. (I have enough of a technical background to be somewhat informed and dangerous.)
It’s a hobby to me, and the pursuit supplies some of the fun.
The one piece of advise I would offer to people when asked is….
Listen to speakers and lots of different ones in as many different places as you can. Then find electronics to drive them properly. Then make a Decision
On separates versus integrated. (Do you want to build a little at a Time?)
If you need help and
Guidance then find a dealer or knowledgeable person you trust.
Carburettors & fuel injection not quiet the same as, “now listen to these two pairs of loudspeakers & chose the pair that sound better to you”.
Yes I worked in audio retail but not high-end audio retail (hangs his head)
Carburettors and capacitors are the same in that they are the bits inside that most people don’t care about. I can’t ever remember a dealer ever discussing anything technical with me, discussions have always been about sound quality and appropriate for my home and budget.
I get your explanation Steve.
I never tried to explain the inner workings of a cap to a customer, unless they asked, & that never happened.
My point is that a lot of the customers that I had to serve weren’t even interested in comparing loudspeakers, which in your ‘car’ analogy would be like them saying to the salesman, “Oh you pick the engine size”.
The only remaining audio/AV chain in the UK (about 60 shops) is very mid-fi, but one of the most successful retailers in the UK that has won numerous independent retailer awards. The owner retired this year and put 60% of the shares into an employee trust and gave all staff £1,000 bonus per year of service, which averaged £8,000, over US$10,000 each.
I appreciate engineers like Paul may want their customers to understand what their stuff does, but my impression is that most customers just want a good sounding system, whether their budget is $500 or $500,000.
I fully get that your customers would take your advice on a pair of speakers and they were probably happier than a customer who couldn’t make up their mind after listening to 10 pairs. I bought my last car without even seeing it.
My proposition is simply that if you have a good, experienced dealer available (mine are very experienced and appreciate that a hard sell is stupid), who may well visit your home and have a good range of products, any customer can go home happy without having any technical knowledge whatsoever. That is my experience, because customers are mostly interested in sound, not electronics.
I think that because I was excited to be in audio that I was kinda hoping that my customers were, even just a little bit, excited enough to want to understand just a little bit of what to listen for. I mean they had stepped into my shop to make a purchase so….
I like to know how my car works & my dishwasher & my vacuum cleaner, but that’s just my inquisitive, mechanical mind.
On reflection I guess that I was, to a large degree, quite naïve.
Or maybe they sensed my honesty & my enthusiasm to do the right thing by them & so the trust was there & I just didn’t recognise that.
Anyway, that was over a decade ago now.
Too late.
Like Jazznut I thought it would be a good idea if each of us posted one thing that has been most helpful in our audio journey. Then I couldn’t think of one! There’s been so many over the years. One thing I would say, don’t underestimate the value of what are considered accessories by some and essentials by others. Rather than making a major component change spend the money on accessories. I’d start with either power or isolation depending where you think the biggest issue lies. The beauty is that these products are interchangeable with components so you keep reaping the benefits. Buy the best you can afford then you only have to buy once, in theory!
Naturally thoughts led me to other things so what follows is a combination of digression, tongue in cheek and devils advocate. So I’ve just extolled the benefits of accessories and now I’m going to question one, room treatments. We’re all aiming for a realistic sound but say your speakers and the room have a resonance. Now if the real instrument was played in your room and produced the same frequency and therefore the same resonance, isn’t that just being realistic. No treatment required.
Similarly I’m not a fan of tone controls. To my mind they add unnecessary complication to the electrical circuit and likely degradation to the delicate audio signal. Also the musicians and recording engineers spend hours in the studio deciding on the sound they want and then we start altering it with tone controls. I liken it to adding a few of your own brush strokes to the painting you bought, just to lighten it up a bit.
Some while ago I recall a comment being made complaining that on some recordings you could hear finger squeaks on guitar strings, vocalists breathing and the like but you didn’t hear these things live. Firstly I think we need to decide what it is we are trying to recreate in our homes, the live concert sound or studio as they are obviously two very different events. I very much enjoy both types of recording, a live concert for the realism and feeling of being there, and studio for what I would describe as being the purer sound. Secondly I love to hear the squeaks and breathing, I call it detail. It takes me closer to the event which though in the studio, was ‘live’ in its own way once. I could say it’s that detail in a studio recording that makes it better than live, but that might be controversial.
“I hope you reach out today and shine a little light for someone”
https://fs.blog/2014/04/einstein-productive-thought-combinatory-creativity/
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I’ve encountered this many times at work. People want things that can’t possibly solve their problem, are impractical or impossible to build, are sometimes dangerous and even illegal, but they insist on having it their way. This is the reason I don’t have a PE license. If I give them what they say they want I’d take legal liability for it if I had a PE license. I could be sued for the consequences of an accident. If I don’t give it to them I can be fired. Without a PE license I’m off the hook. The State does not recognize me as and “expert.” The less they actually know the more certain they are that they are right and the more insistent they get about how they want things done. Most people I work with and for are much more reasonable. They give me a problem and let me do my job. They are especially trusting once I develop a track record of successfully satisfying their expectations.
What are my expectations from a hi fi sound system? I expect what the people who owned the manufacturing companies once promised, concert hall realism. That’s what they said they would achieve. At that time, being a high school student I didn’t really understand the problem. They were the experts, I was just a high school student struggling with science and math. Years later after becoming an engineer and having studied a lot of science, engineering, and math at a very high level, also struggling by the way (the school’s motto was the same as the State of Kansas’ “per aspera ad astra” which means through hardship to the stars) I gave the problem some thought.
So what am I trying to do? Duplicate sound at my ears made one way and heard in one place from a recording or broadcast made an entirely different way through an entirely different process in another place at another time. Once that was established in my mind I “kept my eyes and ears on the prize.” I diverted my attention from the electronics, speakers, tools which were the means and refocused it on sound, it’s nature, and what and how it is heard and interpreted by the brain, the end goal. Suddenly the difference between this amplifier, that amplifier etc. didn’t make that much difference anymore. If it didn’t get me closer to my goal the differences no longer mattered very much. And as a result I threw away everything I thought I new and started with a clean sheet of paper and no preconceptions.
What is your goal, your target and how do you intend to hit a bullseye or at least get your arrows close to it? I’m not just talking to audiophiles, I’m talking to people who conceive, design, manufacture, and sell the equipment. You ask some very high prices for your best shot at what you are trying to do so I think it is a fair question to ask what are you trying to do and how do your products reflect your plan to achieve it?
I could not agree more with Paul that “helping others learn by sharing our years of knowledge is not only the right thing to do, but it’s a critical component in an otherwise confusing world”, whether in the domain of audio reproduction or any other that we have accumulated hard-won knowledge. The fact that he choose to use the title “Just enough to be dangerous” for the post is a good illustration of why that cliche persists; in a few pithy words it states as a universal something unexpected that plausibly explains experiences we have had, a great way to draw our attention in the ever so noisy world in which we all live. As with many such statements, there is a kernel of truth in this one but most of that truth has been pared away by what is left unsaid in stating it universally; why partial knowledge can be dangerous.
The danger of partial knowledge has nothing to do with the knowledge itself and everything to do with our beliefs about that knowledge. In “an otherwise confusing world” our survival instincts bias us to generalization, recognition of confirmation more readily than refutation, and to action on our beliefs. None of us are omniscient so we must always act on partial knowledge. The wider the gap between that partial knowledge and the reality it will encounter if acted on, the greater the danger. This gap is widest when we know the least. It is most dangerous when we unconsciously extended the little we know to situations where it does not actually apply and take confident action that results in a minor or major tragedy.
Taking “Just enough to be dangerous” as a justification for limiting the spread of knowledge is itself a perfect example of an over-generalization of a truth to a situation where it does not apply. If that belief is acted on frequently enough tragedy is inevitable. Much better if, as Paul suggests, this memorable phrase reminds us individually and collectively to question the limits of our knowledge, act on it with appropriate caution, and seek to extend that knowledge as far as humanly possible.
Thanks to Paul and the entire PS Audio family for your role in helping all of us extend our knowledge of music and music reproduction through so many different avenues. The energy and motivation it provides to so many of us to extend our knowledge and act consciously on the many pressing problems of our world make a huge difference. Thank you.
All this makes life to complex. Trying to interact , engage, communicate all usually winds up with commentary that goes on without resolve .So to relieve myself from unproductive interaction with humans I have developed a method more reliable than
The “iron dome “ defense system.
So here it is- someone approaches you to converse; you analyze the attacker from the data base you have developed over the years as to their prime language – you answer the person in a language they have no ability to respond in-
I am fluent in 4 languages so my data base ample. My usual response when translated into English is “ I am sorry I do not speak English “
My hit rate has been 99%!
It especially works on shopping lines when one is confronted by
Person who is inpatient or “pan handlers.”
This defense system is almost flawless and leaves one involved with oneself- which can also be dangerous-
“Audio”
What a hobby
Larry
Danger? Ha! I walk on the wild side. I laugh in the face of danger. Ha ha ha ha! Simba from Lion King.
Thank you for arming me, Paul.
A little knowledge is good in most endeavors – like audio. But…
“Enough knowledge to be dangerous”? Sure, it exists. Or should it read, “Not enough knowledge to be safe”? Remember the movie we all saw in school when the bridge in Washington was oscillating violently because winds were making it twist at its resonant frequency until it fell apart? In Medicine, “enough knowledge to be dangerous” is a common saying, as people like interns think they know more than they do, and just don’t have the experience to know any better. Another saying is, “ Never go to a teaching hospital in July”, as that is when everybody (in training) moves up a notch, and your doctor could be a brand new intern puffed up by being called “Doctor” when they should really be scared to death.
But in audio…you learn what you can, you pick your gear, and you listen. At worst, you’re out a few bucks by having to return some gear. I am currently trying to impart to She Who Must Be Obeyed that there is actually such a thing as “break in”, as she is less than enthralled with my fresh out of the box Sprout 100, using the banana adaptors instead of true banana terminations. Sigh…
“Chris Brunhaver is engaging with people…”
where, how? ive not seen anything. where can these interactions be located?
there was supposed to be a Chris youtube series.
nothing yet. any help?
It used to be, “Learn what you can, listen, and pick your gear.” Ah, the age of the Internet and the decline of brick and mortar stores with good, experienced salespeople. With my first “real” system, back in 1981, I was set on DCM Time Windows until a dealer in Houston had me listen to some B&W DM7’s, which I kept for 23 years. He also sold me Luxman separates and a Thorens TD-124 turntable. I shoulda hung onto it all…
Just enough to be dangerous or just enough to be safe , to be or not to be, which side should I be? 20 yr ago, I have my “entry level” system ( ARCAM alfa10+7se CD player+LINN keilidh) from a Houston local dealer. Recently, I am in the process to move up to “mid range” system. The local dealer is long gone, so I did the online purchase on PSA gears (SGCD/M700/DS DAC/P12), which I can say “just enough to be safe” (Paul, as seen in YouTube, seems to be a friendly and knowledgeable guy!) However, now I am looking for speakers, without being able to actually visit a “friendly and knowledgeable” dealer to actually listen to it, only via reading the reviews and checking out the manufacturer website, it might “Just enough to be dangerous” to get something worse than my LINN keilidh. Maybe, I wait for PSA’s speakers (if I can afford it) or just add subs “just enough to be safe”.
Hi Paul.
You somehow nailed it again, and perhaps the most sad thing about our hobby is, that so many people have so different perspective on certain issues, and not always respect other peoples opinion. That said, i think the best one can do is, to try too be kind to one another, and if you have some knowledge, then pas it on, but do it with a smile on your face 🙂
I always wonder why people get so excited and frustrated, when cables are for debate? I see it everywhere on the internet, in different forums. You just have to look at the emojis being clicked on, when a cable debate is going on (anger, laugh, thumbs down, etc. etc.). Even if you try to share some knowledge on the matter, some people has just decided for themself, that cables do not make any different? But when these debates are raving, are have learned not to go deep into it, but try to comment when i see a member wanting to learn more about the issue. I`m not a professionel at all, and my knowledge comes from many years with this wonderful hobby, reading, learning, listening and years of experience, talking to various people about gear, sound and music! Remember, we are only a few bunch of crazy audiophiles in the world, and we have to take care of each other, and keep on passing our knowledge to others, old as newcomers. Cheers.