Octave Record’s new mixing desk

April 11, 2022
 by Paul McGowan

14 comments on “Octave Record’s new mixing desk”

  1. Capture in DSD, ok that makes sense, but if you have to convert the signal back
    to PCM to edit it then why not just leave it in PCM rather than converting back
    to DSD if you are going to lose some info (when you convert back to DSD)?

    That’s the bit (pardon the pun) that I don’t get…since the majority of
    listeners are still listening to music stored in/as PCM.

    When you can finally edit in DSD, & nothing needs to be converted forth & back,
    that would then be the time to issue recordings in DSD, because there will be
    no distortion or information loss from the currently necessary conversions
    …just sayin’.

    1. That’s my question too! The only logical argument I can imagine is: the reconversion process in combination and the simple filter element at the output produces less artefacts than the more complex D/A conversion for highres PCM (see the option for different filter settings in some PCM DACs.). But I doubt that there are audible differences.

    2. Thanks, Martin and great question. Well, first off, we will do exactly that for PCM releases. So analog->DSD->PCM and then mix, then print as PCM as a 352kHz master. From there we will use the Zephiir decimator to scale down realeses to their more common sample rates so people can play them.

      We will also return to DSD so we can play in DSD. DSD DACs have a very different sound then do PCM DACs even if they are the same DAC.

      1. So finally people are figuring out that your DSDs are not really native DSDs. You convert to analog, or PCM, process in those formats and then change back to DSD. And then you claim that the DAC makes it “sound” different.

        If you record in PCM and keep everything in PCM you avoid all those issues. I am also not convinced that the DSD DAC “sounds” different.

        In addition, you create an enormous complication that is not necessary. A few weeks ago, Scott sent and email with a sampler that had the processing in analog. I told Scott the sound quality was excellent. (I didn’t care much for the music). But it shows that the critical factor is the recording process. Despite all those manipulations, it sounded great. Sometimes, the easier model is the better answer.
        DSD also creates limitations for your subwoofer project. Are you going to do crossovers in DSD? Not possible!

        Just work on generating good recordings in PCM, but this won’t necessarily be a differentiating factor….

        1. Good afternoon CTA!
          I can answer that question for you, with just two words.
          Good ears.
          I’m telling you this to make a very strong point.
          Something tells me that you’re 30 or 40 years my senior.
          Remembering that you told me to have my ears checked when I told you all that I didn’t hear any distortion in any of the subs made by MTX and Legacy Audio.
          I’m kindly reminding you of something that’s very critical with older people.
          The older you get, the more your ability to hear changes.
          Some things, you just won’t be able to differentiate from one thing to another.
          I think this is why you can’t tell the diffrents between PCM and DSD.
          yay thoe, you’re listening to them on identical dacs that are pretty much made the same way.
          Just saying!

          1. The older you get, the more hearing loss you get.

            Because you are blind, you don’t notice this phenomenon, but older people require reading glasses, they also lose sight acuity in other ways. Our cardiovascular system becomes more stiff and less able to function. We lose speed, recovery from tiredness is slower.

            Why would you think that hearing would be spared from the aging process?

            By the way, there used to be this store in Summit, NJ, Called Audio Nexus. I used to buy stuff from them. One of the co-owners was blind. I was fascinated by his ability to use the computer to “read” for him the text in this very fast language that was almost incomprehensible to me. He was highly functional, but it was embarrassing how many times, just by standard practice, you would extend your hand to shake his but he had no idea what you were doing. I am amazed at the skill required to adjust to your way of “seeing” the world.

            But that doesn’t make your ears NOT age. Sorry to tell you.

            1. Good morning CTA!
              I’m sorry that I gave you the wrong idea.
              That wasn’t my attention.
              But before I tell you a little more about what I learned over the years, perhaps I need to tell you a true story about me.
              When I was a baby boy, I went to a special school for handicapped children.
              But shortly before I became a teenager, I spent a good deal of time on the campus of Flagler College.
              I studied about medicine and humans in general.
              And also, I haven’t always been a blind person either.
              I lost the ability to see, shortly after I turned 20.
              But this was almost 29 years ago.
              I didn’t say that my hearing wasn’t deteriorating either.
              Because, some of it has.
              But I still can tell the diffrents between the way certain things sounds to me.
              I’ll be 50 four months from now.
              The things you told me, is nothing new to me at all.
              I was studying to be a psychologist, but, I decided to pursue a career in music and audio. Because, these two things, are my first loves.
              Now, with that said, I will also tell you this.
              Some people, will have you believe, that a DSD file that was converted in to DSD from PCM, sounds like PCM.
              I figured out how to make DSD files out of PCM files.
              And I done this, long before I got my hands on a machine that can decode and play them back for me.
              Butt after I got that machine and hooked it up, the first thing I done, was put a DSD file that was converted from PCM in to it.
              But to my surprise, I heard DSD instead of PCM.
              But don’t just take my word for it, It is written, “out of the mouth of two or more witnesses, the intire thing is established.”
              just ask my wife.
              She will tell you what my home made DSD files sounds like to her.
              You can go to Facebook and look her up.
              I’m not gonna give you her full name.
              But I will give you a clew to how to find her on Facebook.
              Just type in SARAL and see what pops up.
              Another clew that I’ll give you is, her last name starts with the letter B.
              You will see a cupple more letters after the SARAL, but it’s up to you to figure out the rest of that.
              Oh yeah, I’m listed on her timeline, as one of her friends.
              If you find my name on her timeline, then you’ve found both of us.

              1. John,

                If you studied psychology, I am sure you are familiar with the impact of biases on human’s decision making. This area has been fascinating to me in order to understand so many “scientific” issues. It has been formidable to debunk the notion that humans are rational. It has had an enormous impact on economics. Almost everything is impacted by our inherent “biases”.

                A few years ago, a friend of mine reanalyzed the data of a clinical trial we had done together and showed that a lot of the “placebo” response was really associated with the “bias” to enroll patients into the trial. Physicians gave a worse rating at entry in order to make sure the patients qualified for the study. When he reviewed the data without knowing the order (entry or follow-up), most of the placebo response disappeared…. This is why many studies now (not only because of this one) try to review a lot of the data “blinding” the order of tests. If you don’t know what is at entry or follow-up, you get less biased results. Not placebo, BIAS!

                1. Yes CTA, I am!
                  That’s the reason why I walked away from it, after I turned 14.
                  I thought in my mind, there’s got to be a better way to help people instead of tricking them in to believing something that wasn’t really true.
                  That’s why I fail back on my first true loves.
                  No trickery in both music and audio.

                  1. John,
                    Do you realize that if you are turning 50 it is highly unlikely that I would be 40 years your senior? Or even 30?

                    I still ride 100 miles a week and climb over 50k vertical feet per month on the bike, I still run at 7:30 min/mile. I can still bench press my weight and am active in my profession. It would be a miracle if I could do this at 80 or 90 years old…

                    I’m not even too much older than you.

        2. Yes, CTA, that is correct but it’s also something we’ve been very open about all along.

          Unless a live two-channel recording is made in DSD, every single DSD release that’s ever been made is converted first to analog then back again.

          No surprises here.

          1. Well, (to quote you), you have been a bit ambiguous about this, but never mind. As I told Scott, the music sounds terrific. I recall the woman drummer solo sounded uncannily real. It is about the recording…. The lowest resolution there is the analog and it sounded amazing. The she barely touches the bass drum, you can almost feel the hit gently, softly generating the sound.

  2. I’m just grateful I have a DAC that supports both PCM and DSD incredibly well.

    Fact is though, it is the initial recording process that makes Octave recordings sound really damn good. This much I am incredibly grateful for because many upon many modern recordings really do suck. They sound so flat and hyper compressed with sibilance up the ass! Lol.

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