How to listen to bad music
Subscribe to Ask Paul Ask a QuestionA high-end HiFi system has the double edged sword problem of great sounding better at the expense of bad sounding worse. Is there a cure?
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I have some CDs that I listen to in the car, but never in the house.
I use tone controls. Makes much music more listenable and enjoyable
Hey RWP!
For what it’s worth, I agree with you on the tone controls man!
But the problem that high end stereo manufacturers, most of them have with tone controls, is, they think that those being in the cerket, that they will take something away from the quality of the sound.
But if they’re executed correctly, then that won’t happen.
I’ve spoken to quite a few of them over the years.
But every time I ask the question about why their preamps and integrated amps don’t have bass and treble tone controls on them, I always get this answer.
“They muddy up the sound, so there for, we don’t put those in any of our products.”
But I’ve always said to them, “if you have records that are a little shy of bass or a little too bright on the treble, then you want to be able to control that.”
After saying that to them, I don’t get any responce to it.
Hi John,
Of course I am in agreement, and on the units I have the tone controls are completely by-passable, so that negates the argument you have heard from many manufacturers. Give the user the option, either in or out, especially as you say for bass-shy or “trebly” recordings.
Nearly all Motown CDs are bass shy, a bit bright, but judicious use of tone controls goes a very very long way to making them sound darned good!
Hey RWP!
You’re correct on that!
All depending on who you talk to about it, some people say that, “Mcintosh has created a bad rep for themselves.”
I don’t understand that, but Mcintosh Luxman and Black Ice Audio are the only ones, that’s designing and building preamps and integrated amps that have tone controls on them.
And the best part is, they aren’t using silly room correction software in order to do that either.
They’re using the old school methit to do that.
Good old fashion bass and treble knobs man!
They really know how to execute the sonic frinclacies.
It costs to
Put extra controls into a system
No one will be able to hear the difference between the same product with vs without tone controls!
I disagree with you on that.
Do you have my ears?
I didn’t think so.
I spent a lot of years listening to stereo equipment.
If something’s not right, my ears will ameeditly let me know, that something’s wrong with it.
I’ve heard a lot of strait line preamps and integrated amps before.
I tell you the truth, I did not like the sound of them.
Most of them, had the best speakers in the world hooked up to them.
But still, with older recordings, those amps couldn’t make those speakers sing like the way, they were mint to sing.
I mite be a blind man, but I do know my stuff when it comes to that kind of a thing.
As my system has gotten better over time, I have returned more often to recordings that are exemplary. And — as you know — not all great quality recordings are of great performances. And there’s the Studio vs. Live issue. Great Performances + Great Recordings are pretty rare in my collection — probably about 2% of my total “hands-on” music — CDs, SACDs.
It’s fun to explore others’ opinions and to play music from “The Best” playlists from all corners of the world. I don’t always agree, but it’s a great journey. Paul himself has done a fine Best Of playlist. Members of PS Audio Forums have made great suggestion. My greatest joy is to stumble onto a great performance + great recording kind of by accident. While I was researching music for a “Best of Hammond B3” I was working on. I stumbled onto “Prayer Meetin'” [1963] by Jimmy Smith. Just Wow. This led to exploring the amazing story of Rudy Van Gelder and his Van Gelder Studio in Englewood Cliffs, NJ. Now, I have added this studio to my list of “legendary” studios — who put out great recordings of great performances. You know the list — from popular to R&R to classical — Sun, Abby Road, Muscle Shoals, Motown, Electric Lady, Trident, Sunset, etc., etc. And once you ID the studios you like, the names of certain producers/engineers start appearing over and over.
It’s a great hobby. I give so much credit to streaming music platforms for allowing us to take this hobby to levels undreamed just 5 or 10 years ago. Streaming may not be my mode for playing my favorite music. But it’s definitely my platform for music research and discovery. (And, if you are curious — yes, I am saving my nickels for a turntable setup for playing LPs of my top favorites.) Happy Listening, to you all.
I agree with you that streaming is a way to discover new artist like Wallace Roney when I was listening to another Jazz Channel. There are so many talented artist out there that I have not heard or even know of. I have Jimmy Smith written down to check out, Thanks. I enjoy listening to a wide range of Genres.
Enjoy your Day
Well after watching today’s video knowing that you have a list of Paul’s picks what about a reverse list,so people would have both ends of the spectrum would this be a valid as a test of system too.
What do you think.
This seems to be in contrast with what you’ve said in the past. The better the system, the more likely it is to amplify the short comings of a poor recording. Resolution was the key word then.
This segment suggests you can choose equipment that would improve the sound of a poor recording. The idea of choosing a system that works well with poor recordings almost seems like a track by track decision as not all poor recordings are done “poorly” in the same way. I’d hate to choose an amp that sounds great with my present favorite tracks just to find that everything else sounds terrible.
Maybe I misunderstood something here or in past Ask Paul episodes. Poor recordings are certainly an issue. I can’t choose my music by it’s recording standards. My heart likes what it likes and sometimes the ears don’t agree.
My solution. I have several pieces of equipment you would despise. Equalizer, dynamic range expander, subsonic synthesiser, impact restoration. Every piece can be bypassed and for the most part are left out of the chain. But for those occasions when I feel like listening to something that was poorly recorded, I can tweak it a bit. Yes, I can hear the effects of every component and it is an unnatural sound, but it’s an improvement. The advantage; every poor recording seems to need help in a different way. I can’t leave all the equipment in the same settings and switch in when listening to a poor recording. Each one needs it’s own settings.
Wouldn’t it be nice if every track could be recorded in a “Standard” and “HQ” version? They do it for videos, SD, HD and HDX. I guess changing the resolution of a video is just a matter of throwing a switch while making a quality audio recording would probably require a second round in the mixing studio.
I have large enough active speakers with the option to losslessly adjust 3 ways in level + the option to add. adjust treble and bass character + using it sealed or vented + a sub with a parametric EQ…….I have no problems with bad recordings.
But I need to adjust very rarely. I mainly use this to fit the setup to the room or changing gear.
No need to say I wouldn’t want to live without this option and with normal high end which often sounds frustrating, just after a small upgrade within the setup, not to speak of inferior recordings.
Most manufacturers completely ignore the need of music lovers for adjustments and provide their gear for use with the perfect high end recording mainly. The ignorance of this on listener side means he’s an audiophile 😉
A system that is so ruthlessly revealing that poor recordings or anything in the chain that is not perfect like a poorly aligned phono cartridge or poor wires become intolerable until the weak links are corrected versus a system that is musically satisfying but forgiving. It sounds like you are saying that it’s possible for a ruthlessly revealing system to be forgiving on poorly recorded material. I believe I have heard what you’re talking about on my state of the art system that sounds great on almost anything thrown at it, at least allowing it to be listenable versus some of my vintage gear that is ruthlessly revealing of poorly recorded material. There’s nothing etchy hard or grainy in my modern system at anytime and at the same time great recorded material sounds awesome but in my vintage gear it can sound bad at times but I also believe in some ways on the best material my vintage gear does exceed the sound quality of my modern gear in some ways. Not all but in some ways. I think it’s due to refining of modern day equipment. It’s more tame. Vintage gear can sound more explosive but less tame. Interesting.
What I would like to see is a manufacturer improve QC and not consistently sell equipment with
Flaws that are reported over time.
That takes precedence over a tone control!
Larry
I will not even consider any preamp without by-passable tone controls.