• Over the last few days we’ve been discussing the two main technologies in digital audio today: PCM and DSD.  In my mind there’s no doubt that DSD is superior to PCM – if for no other reason than the fact […]
    Paul McGowan CEO PS Audio
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  • 174 Comments
  • Sounds exciting! I hope the technology works as planned.
    P5 > PWT + PWD mkII + Bridge > Art Audio Carissa Signature SET with KR 845 > Avantgarde Uno + REL G1. Cables inc. AC-10, AC-5, Tara Labs, PSA I2S-12
  • Vote Up0Vote Down wingsounds13wingsounds13
    Posts: 2,986Community Leader, Beta Tester
    My goodness... Promises ot threats?

    http://www.pstracks.com/pauls-posts/ps-dsd/8946/

    J.P.
    It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove.
    - Antoine de Saint Exupéry
  • Only time will tell. It could also just fizzle out and go away. Big project, whatever we do will be upgradable so it's an interesting road we're traveling.
    Paul McGowan CEO PS Audio
    Are you receiving a copy of my Paul's Posts series? You'll receive fresh insights into high end audio each morning - good to start the day. Learn more by visiting our YouTube channel as well you can watch the unfolding inside story at PS Audio by visiting our Instagram page.  Have fun and thanks for sharing.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down edorredorr
    Posts: 393Member, Community Leader
    Upgradable as in "if this comes to fruition, the PWD MKII can be upgraded to this new architecture?"
  • Absolutely.
    Paul McGowan CEO PS Audio
    Are you receiving a copy of my Paul's Posts series? You'll receive fresh insights into high end audio each morning - good to start the day. Learn more by visiting our YouTube channel as well you can watch the unfolding inside story at PS Audio by visiting our Instagram page.  Have fun and thanks for sharing.
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  • ... exciting !
  • Upgradable as in "if this comes to fruition, the PWD MKII can be upgraded to this new architecture?"

    admin said:

    Absolutely.


    Does this also mean that there will not be a whole new DAC? Meaning that the current PWD will be the "flagship" for a number of years?
  • Correct.
    Paul McGowan CEO PS Audio
    Are you receiving a copy of my Paul's Posts series? You'll receive fresh insights into high end audio each morning - good to start the day. Learn more by visiting our YouTube channel as well you can watch the unfolding inside story at PS Audio by visiting our Instagram page.  Have fun and thanks for sharing.
    Thanked by 2woot Alekz
  • This is great news. The primary reason I delayed getting a PWD was the lack of a roadmap to someday support my SACD library. I figured that since I would need to keep my SACD player and Pre-Amp around for SACD's, what's the point in adding a DAC and converting all my CD's to digital files. Now that I'm comfortable with the potential for the PWD to eventually anchor a common digital front-end, and allow for the elimination of a Pre-Amp, it's time to make the leap. My PWD MkII w/Bridge should be on my doorstep late next week :x
  • moburns92 said:

    This is great news. The primary reason I delayed getting a PWD was the lack of a roadmap to someday support my SACD library. I figured that since I would need to keep my SACD player and Pre-Amp around for SACD's, what's the point in adding a DAC and converting all my CD's to digital files. Now that I'm comfortable with the potential for the PWD to eventually anchor a common digital front-end, and allow for the elimination of a Pre-Amp, it's time to make the leap. My PWD MkII w/Bridge should be on my doorstep late next week :x

    I was under the impression that this would not work with SACDs?

  • Vote Up0Vote Down edorredorr
    Posts: 393Member, Community Leader
    moburns92 said:

    This is great news. The primary reason I delayed getting a PWD was the lack of a roadmap to someday support my SACD library. I figured that since I would need to keep my SACD player and Pre-Amp around for SACD's, what's the point in adding a DAC and converting all my CD's to digital files. Now that I'm comfortable with the potential for the PWD to eventually anchor a common digital front-end, and allow for the elimination of a Pre-Amp, it's time to make the leap. My PWD MkII w/Bridge should be on my doorstep late next week :x



    Mike, the only way this future DSD capable PWD would allow you to play your SACD collection in native DSD would be to rip them all to harddrive using an old Play Station 3. Not sure this is what you had in mind. Unless of course Paul would put an HDMI input for 2 channel on the DAC, which would be an interesting idea (no other DSD DAC has this - wonder why not).

    May I suggest instead you get your hands on an Oppo 93 with the vanity93 digi out board? This board will convert DSD to 176/24 LPCM and send it out over coax, using a proprietary conversion algorithm. It sounds spectacular.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down tony22tony22
    Posts: 867Member, Beta Tester
    edorr said:

    Mike, the only way this future DSD capable PWD would allow you to play your SACD collection in native DSD would be to rip them all to harddrive using an old Play Station 3.



    I'm ready!

    :D :D :D :D
    Pass X1, Van Alstine 600R, Shahinian Diapasons; Digital: PS Audio PWT, PS Audio PWD/Bridge Mk.II; Analog: AR ES-1 (hot rodded), Linn Akito Mk.2, Benz SL Wood, Plinius Jarrah; The Rest of It: PAD Venustas / AZ Absolute (Wire), RSA Haley, Audience aR2p-TO, Win7 x64, eLyric, Nook HD+, Netgear Network.
  • Curious to hear from anyone their opinion on how the Oppo 93 w/vanity93 to PWD MkII, driving an amp directly might compare to what I'm currently using for SACD, which is a Sony SCD XA777ES going through a PS Audio GCP-200 Pre-Amp. I don't want to "downgrade" SACD performance for the convenience of getting rid of the pre-amp, but if I could expect comparable performance it might be worth a try...

    I did some reading on the Play Station thing, and it sounds like a lot of people have had success with it. I suppose that could be an option, but before I dive into a project like that I'll probably ask someone on the forum for some guidance so I don't end up with a garage full of the wrong Play Stations ~X(

    My long-term hope is that if PS Audio goes forward with the DSD project, that they'll figure out some way to support the SACD format natively. :-B
  • Vote Up0Vote Down tony22tony22
    Posts: 867Member, Beta Tester
    Mike, look here

    http://www.ps3sacd.com/faq.html#_Toc180147566

    the whole thing is worth a read, but you want to click particularly on "Do all PS3s play SA-CD?".
    Pass X1, Van Alstine 600R, Shahinian Diapasons; Digital: PS Audio PWT, PS Audio PWD/Bridge Mk.II; Analog: AR ES-1 (hot rodded), Linn Akito Mk.2, Benz SL Wood, Plinius Jarrah; The Rest of It: PAD Venustas / AZ Absolute (Wire), RSA Haley, Audience aR2p-TO, Win7 x64, eLyric, Nook HD+, Netgear Network.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down edorredorr
    Posts: 393Member, Community Leader
    moburns92 said:

    Curious to hear from anyone their opinion on how the Oppo 93 w/vanity93 to PWD MkII, driving an amp directly might compare to what I'm currently using for SACD, which is a Sony SCD XA777ES going through a PS Audio GCP-200 Pre-Amp. I don't want to "downgrade" SACD performance for the convenience of getting rid of the pre-amp, but if I could expect comparable performance it might be worth a try...



    Before going the modded Oppo route, I used a Marantz ud9004 with a Theta Six Shooter MCH analog preamp for SACD. The Oppo digitally into the PWK MKII at 176/24 trounces it - even with digital volume control. You won't be downgrading anything - it will be a big step up. You're basically switch from using the Sony DACs to the PWD MKII, which is no comparison, and far more than offsets any loss from converting DSD to 174/24 (I presume you play SACD in the Sony in DSD direct mode as opposed to converting to PCM before D/A conversion).

    moburns92 said:

    My long-term hope is that if PS Audio goes forward with the DSD project, that they'll figure out some way to support the SACD format natively. :-B



    If the PWD / DSD DAC happend, it will support native DSD, but only over USB, and if Paul get very adventurous over HDMI. There is no other way to get DSD into a DAC, short of a propietary link from your SACD transport with encrytion (like EMM Labs does). Not a chance PS audio will develop this.
  • @edorr: Thanks for the advice and referal on the modded Oppo. I think I'll probably go that route, but I'm going to wait until I get my PWD set up and running (and maybe give it some break-in time) before I take that next step.

    One last question on the Vanity93 board...where did you buy yours? I see they have a US distributor, but it looks like you can also buy direct from AudioPraise. Any recommendation there? I've only been looking for a few days, but haven't seen any used units coming up for sale.
  • @tony22: Thanks for the link Tony. It was very useful information, but almost to the point of scaring me away from trying it ~:> As I was reading through one set of instructions on how to set up the PS3, I got to a point where he talked about "compiling your own" ripping program, and I just stopped reading. Is there an easier way to do this? Anybody know of anyone that will configure a PS3 unit for SACD ripping as a service (or sell pre-configured units)???
  • Vote Up0Vote Down tony22tony22
    Posts: 867Member, Beta Tester
    Mike, it's actually not that hard to do, but it does take hunting down some needed files. Nothing needs to be compiled if you get your hands on the right files and utilities. Needless to say these are not just sitting around on the web; Sony keeps squashing most sites like that.

    I've seen preconfigured PS3s on eBay, but it should be no surprise that they fetch a bit more money.
    Pass X1, Van Alstine 600R, Shahinian Diapasons; Digital: PS Audio PWT, PS Audio PWD/Bridge Mk.II; Analog: AR ES-1 (hot rodded), Linn Akito Mk.2, Benz SL Wood, Plinius Jarrah; The Rest of It: PAD Venustas / AZ Absolute (Wire), RSA Haley, Audience aR2p-TO, Win7 x64, eLyric, Nook HD+, Netgear Network.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down edorredorr
    Posts: 393Member, Community Leader
    moburns92 said:

    @edorr: Thanks for the advice and referal on the modded Oppo. I think I'll probably go that route, but I'm going to wait until I get my PWD set up and running (and maybe give it some break-in time) before I take that next step.

    One last question on the Vanity93 board...where did you buy yours? I see they have a US distributor, but it looks like you can also buy direct from AudioPraise. Any recommendation there? I've only been looking for a few days, but haven't seen any used units coming up for sale.



    I bought mine direct from the manufacurer in the Czech Republic. Incredibly, he send me the board for a trial WITH NO MONEY DOWN (just shipping).

  • @admin
    Hi Paul, I just read your comment -now 32 days ago-. I can only confirm you are 100% right in pursueing a DSD route. Last week I purchased a SCD-1 player and am amazed how much better it sounds compared to the PWD2 even on high res files. You should not give up this route! Convinced there are a lot of people who would go for this!!
    ________________________________________________________________
    QNAP TS269Pro - PWDACMKII - Sony SCD-1- Mirror Image Tube Pre-Amp - Krell KSA300S power amp - Two-way Speakers (Audax woofer & B&G magnetostat) -
  • Vote Up0Vote Down adminPaul McGowan
    Posts: 4,193PS Expert
    Thanks. The bigger issue for us is how DSD files will be accessed and sent to the PWD when it has DSD capabilities. SACD will probably never be an option for us because of the copyright issues with Sony. So where do people get DSD files and then how do they input them? A few sites like Blue Coast records make them available, but....
    Paul McGowan CEO PS Audio
    Are you receiving a copy of my Paul's Posts series? You'll receive fresh insights into high end audio each morning - good to start the day. Learn more by visiting our YouTube channel as well you can watch the unfolding inside story at PS Audio by visiting our Instagram page.  Have fun and thanks for sharing.
  • Bring it! :)
  • Vote Up0Vote Down wootwoot
    Posts: 296Community Leader
    admin said:

    Thanks. The bigger issue for us is how DSD files will be accessed and sent to the PWD when it has DSD capabilities. SACD will probably never be an option for us because of the copyright issues with Sony. So where do people get DSD files and then how do they input them? A few sites like Blue Coast records make them available, but....



    If you buid it, the adobters will come...

  • Vote Up0Vote Down alekzAlekz
    Posts: 2,778Community Leader, Beta Tester
    Paul McGowan said: how DSD files will be accessed and sent to the PWD when it has DSD capabilities.


    Foobar2000 + SACD Decoder plugin
  • Vote Up0Vote Down adminPaul McGowan
    Posts: 4,193PS Expert
    OK, that's helpful - but how does it get out and into the DAC? USB?
    Paul McGowan CEO PS Audio
    Are you receiving a copy of my Paul's Posts series? You'll receive fresh insights into high end audio each morning - good to start the day. Learn more by visiting our YouTube channel as well you can watch the unfolding inside story at PS Audio by visiting our Instagram page.  Have fun and thanks for sharing.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down alekzAlekz
    Posts: 2,778Community Leader, Beta Tester
    admin said:

    OK, that's helpful - but how does it get out and into the DAC? USB?



    UPnP, USB, whatever the sound card has (TOS, coax, etc), Virtual Sound Card. In other words anything is possible.

    Currently I use UPnP (DSD->PCM->Bridge). Listening to Bill Evans at the Village Vanguard SACD at the moment ;)

    BTW, the last SACD plugin has loadable FIR filters for DSD->PCM conversion.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down tony22tony22
    Posts: 867Member, Beta Tester
    But Alekz, is the foobar plgin like the one for JRiver - it decodes the DSD/DSF to PCM? If so, does this really answer the question? Don't we want to send DSD directly to a PWD and have it handle the data in hardware?
    Pass X1, Van Alstine 600R, Shahinian Diapasons; Digital: PS Audio PWT, PS Audio PWD/Bridge Mk.II; Analog: AR ES-1 (hot rodded), Linn Akito Mk.2, Benz SL Wood, Plinius Jarrah; The Rest of It: PAD Venustas / AZ Absolute (Wire), RSA Haley, Audience aR2p-TO, Win7 x64, eLyric, Nook HD+, Netgear Network.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down alekzAlekz
    Posts: 2,778Community Leader, Beta Tester
    The SACD plugin can either send DSD stream or transcode it to PCM. You can set it in Preferences -> Tools -> SACD -> ASIO Driver Mode -> DSD|PCM
  • Vote Up0Vote Down adminPaul McGowan
    Posts: 4,193PS Expert
    Yes, but that's not DSD it's PCM. What I am asking is sources of pure DSD - as we want to include the next generation of DACS to have DSD in.
    Paul McGowan CEO PS Audio
    Are you receiving a copy of my Paul's Posts series? You'll receive fresh insights into high end audio each morning - good to start the day. Learn more by visiting our YouTube channel as well you can watch the unfolding inside story at PS Audio by visiting our Instagram page.  Have fun and thanks for sharing.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down alekzAlekz
    Posts: 2,778Community Leader, Beta Tester
    Paul McGowan said: Yes, but that's not DSD it's PCM.


    It is DSD. Again, you can choose what you want. DSD|PCM means "DSD or PCM", not "DSD to PCM" ;-)