Call Us: +1 720-406-8946

New P20 ..... more details please? | Page 2 | AC Power Forum | Forums

A A A
Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register sp_MemberList Members

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
New P20 ..... more details please?
Topic Rating: +14 Topic Rating: +14 (14 votes) 
September 3, 2017
7:40 am
Avatar

Newbie
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
July 23, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
31sp_Permalink sp_Print
+1

What I would LOVE to see in the new P20 would be the ability to add aftermarket threaded feet such as Stillpoints Ultra SS or Ultra 5’s. With the P10, one has to resort to using such devices where the unit simply sits atop of them making it less secure.

September 3, 2017
8:16 am
Avatar

Forum Leader
Forum Posts: 7627
Member Since:
March 4, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
32sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Welcome, mchydro!

September 3, 2017
9:56 am
Avatar
MA

Contributor
Forum Posts: 195
Member Since:
April 24, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

mchydro said

What I would LOVE to see in the new P20 would be the ability to add aftermarket threaded feet such as Stillpoints Ultra SS or Ultra 5’s. With the P10, one has to resort to using such devices where the unit simply sits atop of them making it less secure.  

SVS isolation feet work great for 50 bucks. I assume it’s the same base as the BHK amps? I use the SVS feet on my BHK 250. Works great.

September 3, 2017
12:35 pm
Avatar
US

Member
Forum Posts: 21
Member Since:
July 1, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
34sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

darrenv1070:  are you hearing sonic benefits with the SVS feet vs. the standard feet on the amp?  If so, could you please describe their impact?  Thanks! 

TAD CR-1's; PS Audio BHK 300 Mono's; PS Audio BHK Sig preamp; SOTA Cosmos table with SME V arm + Benz LP-S MR cartridge + Stealth Hyperphono IC, Audio Research Ref 2SE phono stage; Lampizator Golden Gate DAC fed by USB from a Windows PC; Benckmark ADC 1 + Tascam DV-RA1000HD for digital transcription of LP's; PS Audio P-10; Elrod cabling throughout. Lots of DIY room treatments, and vibration isolation for components.

September 4, 2017
6:30 am
Avatar
MA

Contributor
Forum Posts: 195
Member Since:
April 24, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
35sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

The amp seems to be more detailed and have better sense of space. I hear no tube ring t all ( not that there was much to star with ). I use these feet on all my amps ( Emotiva for HT ) as well. These work well for super cheap money. Give them a try.

 

To be honest I have had them on for so long I forget what is sounded like without?

September 4, 2017
10:47 am
Avatar
MA

Contributor
Forum Posts: 195
Member Since:
April 24, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Paul McGowan said

Definitely a scaled up version of the P10 but there are some other changes as well. More to come when I can.  

Paul, I’d like to see the coaxial protection like on the PPP for the new P20. Just my 2¢

September 4, 2017
12:23 pm
Avatar

Member
Forum Posts: 96
Member Since:
July 25, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
37sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I’d like to see one pair of filtered, non regenerated outlets on the P5; P10 and P20.

September 4, 2017
3:14 pm
Avatar

Forum Leader
Forum Posts: 7627
Member Since:
March 4, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
38sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

What kind of filtering and what would you do with it?

September 5, 2017
1:59 am
Avatar

Contributor
Forum Posts: 114
Member Since:
September 26, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
39sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

In my plans and if all goes well I will need 3 high power sockets, but don’t have the room for 2 P10’s!

And if I did, they would not be working under the same charge so I don’t like that…
A P20, if it has more than 2 high power sockets and can power 6 channels at 400W each might just be included in my plan!

I’ll follow this thread with attention ;o)

Active bi-amp system, going active triple amp! just need new crossover filter, new stereo amp, new modulation cables, new speaker cables, new power conditioner...

September 23, 2017
11:34 am
Avatar

Newbie
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 23, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
40sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hi, I’m a real newbie to this site. Like you all, I want more information on the P20! I have mainly all valve gear, not the t/t or loudspeakers, though!

My turntable runs on air, a Bergmann Sindre, loudspeakers are Quad Electrostatics and my amps are Air Tights ATM 211. Pre and phono are Nagra. Oh, I live in England. At the moment I run everything off a PPP and I’ve had no problems, touch wood. I’ve read on this forum to keep the valve amp on standby all the time. As they have a soft start, I switch them off after listening. The Quads are left on constantly, wouldn’t want to wait for those to warm up – hours and hours before the fat lady starts singing.

Although the PPP has done sterling service being kept on 24/7 I am getting impatient for the new arrival. I hope that each socket can be left on or switched off individually. I also have good old equipment that were set at 240 volts rather than the European 230 volts and would like to set one or two outputs at 240 and the remainder at 230 volts.

Cheeky one here, any guesses as to the percentage increase in retail cost? I would hazard 15%to 20%, but that is only my personal opinion.

Oh, I can’t wait, I’m inpatient.

Cheers,

Mighty Ant from over the pond.

September 23, 2017
2:52 pm
Avatar

Forum Leader
Forum Posts: 7627
Member Since:
March 4, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
41sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Welcome, Mighty Ant!

The P5 and P10 outlets can be programmed to be left on or switchable.  I expect the P20 will retain this feature.

Any reason you have not upgraded to a P5 or P10 and are waiting for the P20?  Just curious.

September 23, 2017
5:01 pm
Avatar

Newbie
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 23, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
42sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hi,

I’ve been told that the electrostatics require individual high power sockets as do the ATM 211s, making four in total. The reason for waiting for the P20 and not upgrading to a P10 is purely financial necessity. I know, I know, I have spent loads of dosh on equipment, but the P20 having the four high power outputs will make it real sense to go down that route.

Thank you for your welcome.

The following users say thank you to mighty ant for this useful post:

Elk
September 23, 2017
5:31 pm
Avatar
Down Under, South Australia

Up and Coming
Forum Posts: 304
Member Since:
March 20, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
43sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hi @mighty ant 

nice set-up btw, I also own Quad ESLs but I suggest that you switch them off between listening sessions as they weren’t designed to operate 24/7. Also running components at 230v or 240v won’t degrade their performance as components are designed to operate properly within a wide margin – if you want to be sure then I’d suggest you set all voltages to be 235v. 

ClearAudio Avant Garde Magnum TT, SME-V, Lyra Kleos MC, Golden Age Reference Tube Phono-stage and SUT, BHK-preamp, DMP, DS-DAC, BHK300's, P10, Quad2905s

September 23, 2017
7:05 pm
Avatar
Carson City, NV

Up and Coming
Forum Posts: 401
Member Since:
January 24, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
44sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

frank7036 said

 I also own Quad ESLs but I suggest that you switch them off between listening sessions as they weren’t designed to operate 24/7.

Yup! When the panels fail (and they eventually will) and die with a sizzling blue arc and smoke, you want to be around. Turn them off when you’re not.

Waxed string, Dixie cups, old comb, paper cone, hound dog.

September 24, 2017
7:30 am
Avatar

PS Expert
Forum Posts: 5463
Member Since:
July 8, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
45sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Maybe it’s too early in the morning and I am not yet sufficiently caffeinated, but electrostatic panels themselves draw almost no current and do not require a high power socket. The charging voltage is nothing. That written, the audio transformer for these can be a bit brutal, but that would only concern the power amplifier feeding them.

mighty ant said

Hi,

I’ve been told that the electrostatics require individual high power sockets as do the ATM 211s, making four in total. The reason for waiting for the P20 and not upgrading to a P10 is purely financial necessity. I know, I know, I have spent loads of dosh on equipment, but the P20 having the four high power outputs will make it real sense to go down that route.

Thank you for your welcome.  

Co-founder and CEO of PS Audio. Hobbies (other than audio) include cooking, artisan bread baking, writing The Carbon Wars, hiking and inventing stuff. Infinity IRSV, MG Audio Designs and Audioquest cables, five P10 Power Plants, DirectStream DAC, NuWave Phono Converter, Clear Audio Master turntable, Lyra Cartridge, BHK Monos and BHK preamp, LANRover USB Transporter. I live in Boulder Colorado with my wife Terri, both of us are vegetarians for many decades. If you want to see support my first shot at writing a novel go here.

September 24, 2017
10:23 am
Avatar

Newbie
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 23, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
46sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thanks for ALL the replies.

September 29, 2017
4:15 pm
Avatar
MA

Contributor
Forum Posts: 195
Member Since:
April 24, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
47sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Paul, best case scenario. When would you think PSA will offer the P20 for sale? I have been on the fence for a P10 is why I ask.

September 29, 2017
4:18 pm
Avatar

PS Expert
Forum Posts: 5463
Member Since:
July 8, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Looking at January 2018. Not to be a tease, but…..

Left-side-angle.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

The following users say thank you to Paul McGowan for this useful post:

Veneet, Linvincible, audioford

Co-founder and CEO of PS Audio. Hobbies (other than audio) include cooking, artisan bread baking, writing The Carbon Wars, hiking and inventing stuff. Infinity IRSV, MG Audio Designs and Audioquest cables, five P10 Power Plants, DirectStream DAC, NuWave Phono Converter, Clear Audio Master turntable, Lyra Cartridge, BHK Monos and BHK preamp, LANRover USB Transporter. I live in Boulder Colorado with my wife Terri, both of us are vegetarians for many decades. If you want to see support my first shot at writing a novel go here.

September 29, 2017
5:19 pm
Avatar

Member
Forum Posts: 84
Member Since:
March 21, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
49sp_Permalink sp_Print
+1

Are the handles removable? Is it weird that I asked that…

Dedicated 20A Line->Soloist Premier->P10->Roon ROCK (NUC7i5BNH) & OPPO UDP-205->DS DAC->Krell Digital Vanguard Integrated Amp->ATC SCM40 & 2xREL T9i

September 30, 2017
5:34 am
Avatar

Member
Forum Posts: 14
Member Since:
September 2, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
50sp_Permalink sp_Print
+1

It’s interesting… all of the (limited amounts) of replies (here and on the main page) are asking about the handles in a way that suggests folks do NOT like the looks.  It has McIntosh handles.  Or at least, that is what I associate them with. I am sure some other brand has them, and may have even done them first, but I see McIntosh handles when I look at the P20.  Not a bad thing, to me.  

I also wonder how on earth you could lift the darn thing if it DID NOT have them LOL!

As for removing them, it would be a sweet design, for those that wanted to do so, to be able to take them off and fill in the threaded “holes” with some sort of stainless steel screw etc…

Personally, this is a utilitarian device to me.  The handles make it look mean and aggressive and serious, in a way that I enjoy. 

The following users say thank you to wired1 for this useful post:

Paul McGowan
September 30, 2017
7:37 am
Avatar

PS Expert
Forum Posts: 5463
Member Since:
July 8, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
51sp_Permalink sp_Print
+1

Veneet said

Are the handles removable? Is it weird that I asked that…  

Nope.

The following users say thank you to Paul McGowan for this useful post:

Veneet

Co-founder and CEO of PS Audio. Hobbies (other than audio) include cooking, artisan bread baking, writing The Carbon Wars, hiking and inventing stuff. Infinity IRSV, MG Audio Designs and Audioquest cables, five P10 Power Plants, DirectStream DAC, NuWave Phono Converter, Clear Audio Master turntable, Lyra Cartridge, BHK Monos and BHK preamp, LANRover USB Transporter. I live in Boulder Colorado with my wife Terri, both of us are vegetarians for many decades. If you want to see support my first shot at writing a novel go here.

September 30, 2017
9:47 pm
Avatar

Contributor
Forum Posts: 171
Member Since:
June 1, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
52sp_Permalink sp_Print
+1

The following users say thank you to scotte1 for this useful post:

busterfree, audioford

Gallo Ref. 3.1 speakers;ANTICABLES speaker wire;Emotiva XPA-1 (Gen 1) Mono. amps;SVS PB12-Ultra/2 sub.;Anthem AVM50v pre/pro (w/Anthem Room Correction);PS Audio DS DAC (Huron) (w/PW Bridge I);Denon DVD 2900 (transport);Better Cables Silver Serpent XLR cables;Monster AVS 2000 SS (surge suppressor/conditioner/stabilizer);Monster HTPS 7000 SS (surge suppressor/conditioner);Morrow AC cables;iMac (Wi-Fi to router);TP-LINK MC200CM Gigabit Media Converters,1000Mbps RJ45 to 1000M multi-mode SC fiber (b/t router and giga-bit switch, which feeds the DS);AQ Forest ethernet cable;JRMC 22/JRemote

October 1, 2017
10:13 am
Avatar

Member
Forum Posts: 96
Member Since:
July 25, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
53sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Elk said

What kind of filtering and what would you do with it?  

[In response to my post: I’d like to see one pair of filtered, non regenerated outlets on the P5; P10 and P20.]

Sorry Elk, missed your reply.

The very same type of filtering employed in the now defunct P3; and I assume also the Dectet.

I don’t have a use for it myself [because I have enough regeneration on the P10 for my needs]. However, not everybody uses the same equipment than me [e.g. some may have full-blown valve amps, TV, projector etc], and so x1 P5; P10 or P20 may not be enough. Then some of the less critical though more power-hungry components could be moved to the un-regenerated outlets, thereby at least supplying protection everywhere.

Of course I understand it’s a compromise. However I think that it is far less likely that you’d run out of sufficient regenerated oulets for critical components (now having a pair less); that the likelyhood of running out of suffient power.

The following users say thank you to plcomp for this useful post:

Elk
October 1, 2017
11:15 am
Avatar

Newbie
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 23, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
54sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

frank7036 said

Hi @mighty ant 

nice set-up btw, I also own Quad ESLs but I suggest that you switch them off between listening sessions as they weren’t designed to operate 24/7. Also running components at 230v or 240v won’t degrade their performance as components are designed to operate properly within a wide margin – if you want to be sure then I’d suggest you set all voltages to be 235v.   

Paul McGowan said

Maybe it’s too early in the morning and I am not yet sufficiently caffeinated, but electrostatic panels themselves draw almost no current and do not require a high power socket. The charging voltage is nothing. That written, the audio transformer for these can be a bit brutal, but that would only concern the power amplifier feeding them.

  

Sorry but been in hospital. Paul is correct, had a dealer contact Quad tech support and they say exactly what Paul has said that it is down to the amp and that the 2912s, as previous models, were designed to stay on 24/7 It is voltage change that counts when on and that should be controlled by the output trannies on the amplifiers. Now why should I go for the P20, what’s so different? 105_gif

October 4, 2017
3:47 am
Avatar

Contributor
Forum Posts: 114
Member Since:
September 26, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

NICE!!!

I could see the back pannel too from the link posted above, and notice it’s rated 1500VA just like the P10. 

I suppose that’s the max power it will draw from the line, as both models will max at the same current input for electric standard compliance. That way you do not need your customers to draw new high current lines just for that device. 

Can you say more on the capacity difference between the P10 and P20?

How many high power sockets will the europe version have?

Active bi-amp system, going active triple amp! just need new crossover filter, new stereo amp, new modulation cables, new speaker cables, new power conditioner...

October 4, 2017
7:45 am
Avatar

Community Leader
Forum Posts: 628
Member Since:
March 2, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

But . . . but. . . .  It won’t fit in my rack.   20_gif The rack was chosen to fit the P10 on the second shelf from the bottom to make the power cords as short as possible to the first shelf below (BHK 250) and third through 5th shelves above (preamp, blue-ray, DS DAC).  I only needed 1/2 meter power cords for the preamp and amp, so the AC10’s were fine in those applications at that length.

Sigh.  No P20 for me as I’d have to replace my power cords as well.  Oh well, the P10 is running fine.

Time to morph the P20 into some BHK 450 monoblocks, though . . .

laugh

–SSW

October 4, 2017
5:41 pm
Avatar
SE Michigan

Up and Coming
Forum Posts: 752
Member Since:
December 22, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
57sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

The P20 is just (massive) overkill for me, but any chance the new display on the P20 will find it’s way to the P10 (or P5)?  I’m getting closer to finally getting a P10, but sure would like to know if that (or any other) update is coming for the P10. 

Vandersteen 5, BHK 250 Signature amplifier (on PowerBase), BHK Preamp, DirectStream DAC, Bridge II, DirectStream Memory Player, NuWave Phono Converter, VPI Aries Extended/JMW 12.5/ Shelter 901/SDS, PS Audio P500, SolidSteel Equipment Rack, Kimber & AudioQuest interconnect, Goertz speaker cable, PS Audio and homemade power cables, and Noise Harvesters.

October 4, 2017
6:09 pm
Avatar

PS Expert
Forum Posts: 5463
Member Since:
July 8, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
58sp_Permalink sp_Print
+1

I imagine that new GUI will find its way into the P10 and P5 at some point in an update, sure.

The P20 may be overkill – but I can give you a few stats and some more pictures to wet your dry whistles.

The P20 has the following improvements over the mighty P10:

  • Three times the energy storage
  • Three times lower output impedance
  • Twice the number of output devices
  • Half the distortion
  • Nearly 40% more power
  • Clear and unquestionable improvement in sound quality

It’s really a brute, no doubt, and it outperforms anything we’ve yet built. To put its incredible low output impedance in perspective, it is the same as connecting your home directly to the city power station through no more than 50 feet of 12 gauge wire. Consider the miles of wire and transformers the power now goes through – and imagine how pure the power might be with no sharing and a mere 50 feet away. Yum, yum.

Front.jpgImage Enlarger

Left-side.jpgImage Enlarger
Rear-20-amp.jpgImage Enlarger
Right-side.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

The following users say thank you to Paul McGowan for this useful post:

Linvincible, pmotz, audioford

Co-founder and CEO of PS Audio. Hobbies (other than audio) include cooking, artisan bread baking, writing The Carbon Wars, hiking and inventing stuff. Infinity IRSV, MG Audio Designs and Audioquest cables, five P10 Power Plants, DirectStream DAC, NuWave Phono Converter, Clear Audio Master turntable, Lyra Cartridge, BHK Monos and BHK preamp, LANRover USB Transporter. I live in Boulder Colorado with my wife Terri, both of us are vegetarians for many decades. If you want to see support my first shot at writing a novel go here.

October 5, 2017
2:47 am
Avatar

Contributor
Forum Posts: 114
Member Since:
September 26, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
59sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thanks for these details Paul, do you have a rendering of the EU back plate?

I need 3 high current sockets, the P10 only has 2 in the EU configuration and I fear plugging 2 amps in one P10 and 1 in another might feel unbalanced. P20 would be perfect if it has 3 or 4 sockets in the EU config!

Other solution is 3 P5s… will see about that when we have more info on the P20!

Active bi-amp system, going active triple amp! just need new crossover filter, new stereo amp, new modulation cables, new speaker cables, new power conditioner...

October 5, 2017
2:58 am
Avatar

Member
Forum Posts: 31
Member Since:
June 6, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
60sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Maybe a little soon, but how many outlets will the UK version of the P20 have? 

No permission to create posts